Trouble with your microphone? Read this...

[w-u-2-o]

Nearly everyone who reports trouble with their microphone is doing one of the following things wrong:

1. They have not read the user guide and made the proper connections. The user guide has a lot of faults, but identifying the connections on the microphone connectors is not one of them. You must make those connections properly. You must use a "stereo" TRS (tip, ring, shield) connector, you cannot use a mono tip-shield connector. Read your user guide, really read it, and understand which wire goes where. If you are not capable of making a microphone cable yourself (something that is a little disturbing in an amateur radio operator, I must say ), there are a number of people/sources who will be happy to sell you what you need.

2. Using a unmodified PC microphone with a TRS connector and a rear panel attached PTT switch. Sadly this will not work. The reason is because the rear panel PTT connector is in parallel with the RING terminal on the front panel microphone TRS connector. That means the RING terminal on the microphone TRS connector will be shorted to ground when the PTT switch attached to the rear panel is closed. And, since the RING terminal on a PC microphone is used for the mic bias and is in parallel with the TIP terminal inside the microphone then this will cause the microphone to be shorted out whenever the PTT switch is used. This is also why you can get this to work with spacebar or mouse PTT, but NOT an external PTT switch. The answer to this problem is to re-wire the PC mic to not use the RING terminal.

3. Not turning on mic bias for a condenser microphone. If it's a condenser microphone and it doesn't work, you must make sure the mic bias is turned on. The user guides do a less good job at discussing how to do this. If you are lucky enough to have a 200D or an 8000 (and soon the 7000), this is easy, you can do it from the setup window (Setup > General > Hardware Config). On other radios you must open it up and make sure a jumper is placed properly. The jumper is in place by default from the factory.

4. Not turning on mic boost for a dynamic microphone. If it's a dynamic microphone and it doesn't work, you must make sure of two things a) the mic bias is turned off (see Item 2 above) and b) that mic boost is turned on. While you can get away with failing at (a), failing at (b), not activating mic boost, which is done from the setup window (Setup > Transmit) , will cause it not to work.

5. Not getting all of the audio levels set correctly. You must be hitting 0dB ALC to get the best performance from the radio. See the two audio setup thread that are "stickied" at the top of this forum.

[kb3bf]

Question:

I noticed there is permanent 3.3V bias on the Mike tip (front) even though Mike is set to DEFAULT, Bias is OFF, and PTT OFF.
(Thetis 2.8.11, 7000DLE)

Do i need to put a series cap when installing a dynamic mike?
Why is there a Bias on the tip?

tnx.

[w-u-2-o]

I believe the mic default setting is "Tip". Please confirm that's what you are set to.

I also believe that the PTT "Off" setting is incorrectly labeled. Referring to the Orion MKII schematic, there are only two possible hardware states for PTT, Tip or Ring. Thus setting PTT to "Off" probably sets it to "Tip". And the PTT input is pulled up on the board to 3.3V.

Note that the mic bias voltage is 3/4 x 3.3V, or 2.475V.

Change your PTT setting to "On", your Mic to "Tip" (if it isn't already) and please report what you find on the tip and ring of the mic connector with both Bias on and off.

BTW, this is very interesting. It sounds like a bug that's been festering for a while and I'm surprised it took this long to find it. I would never notice myself because I only use VAC.

Thanks,

Scott

[W4WMT]

Note that the mic bias voltage is 3/4 x 3.3V, or 2.475V.

Scott

I think that's just a bit of leakage current. With "Bias" turned off, a 1 meg resistor pulls it down to just a few mV.

73, Bryan

[kb3bf]

OK Scott, thanks for getting back to me.

I confirm that default mike is TIP.
bias is OFF
PTT is ON

YET there is still 3.24V present on TIP. I am reading this with a Fluke 87 multimeter.
On Ring, I see a decaying 3.24V reading that slowly over a minute or so goes to zero.

what's next? Use a capacitor for a dynamic mike?

tnx

Chris

[kb3bf]

I forgot to mention I upgraded to v.2.811 when I noticed this in the previous versions. Same result.
Maybe I should learn how to set up VAC like you do.
Chris

[kb3bf]

Never mind, I made a mistake sorry. I am reading the decaying 3.3V on TIP, not RING. I should have waited long enough to notice the decay.
At first it appears there is bias present.

I guess I can proceed with the dynamic mike installation and let the bias decay.
sorry for the confusion.
I will report back when everything is installed.

Chris

[kb3bf]

now that I know to ignore a slowly decaying bias on Mic Tip (with Bias off), i installed a dynamic Shure 55S and a D104 with a Primo dynamic element.
Both seem to be working fine, except when monitoring (MON) with headphones i need to cut way back on the Mic Gain to prevent audio feedback.
I am using VOX.

[docrix]

2. Using a unmodified PC microphone with a TRS connector and a rear panel attached PTT switch. Sadly this will not work.

You've got to be kidding... My first attempt was with a condenser mic that had a mono plug. sadly this will also not work.. I use a footswitch for PTT to the rear panel. If I don't enable PTT it doesn't work. If I do enable PTT, the radio is immediately keyed since the mic plug has a shield where the ring would have been and it grounds the signal. So I put together another setup that works in most of the civilized world - using a standard PC configured condenser mic - and now it also doesn't work, apparently by design.

Is there a possible workaround to this other than coming up with a custom wired connector? It seems that not one but TWO industry standard configurations have been ruled out by the current implementation.

(Don't get me started on the reversed APP power connector!).

Rick
N1RM
ANAN7000DLE MKii Black Edition

[w-u-2-o]

Rick,

I didn't design it, I'm just reporting on how it is designed.

You have to work with what you have. It's really no worse than having to wire up an RJ type or DIN type mic connector.

If it were up to me, all radios would be provisioned with an XLR mic connector into a fully balanced mic preamp. Alas this is not the case.

However I do agree that the use of standard TRS connectors in odd ways (be careful about the speaker outputs, too) can be incredibly confusing. Hence this very topic.

73,

Scott

[docrix]

Thanks, Scott - didn't mean to shoot the messenger!

I really appreciate your post - it explained what was frustrating me. It just kind of shocked me that such a sophisticated design (in most ways) could have such a configuration.

Since I never anticipate using the ring on the mic connector as PTT, I will likely just put a TRS plug on in place of my mono connector and leave the ring open.

I had previously wondered why Elecraft used a mono 3.5 mm jack for the rear panel mic connector on the K3 and K4 - now I know.

Thanks again for the very helpful info. Hopefully it can find its way into a manual some day. I am brand new to the PC-based SDR world and still trying to establish my 'go-to' sources for information. It seems to be spread out all over the place.

Rick
N1RM

[Trucker]

Scott, my apologies if this is posted in the wrong place. I just wanted to say thank you for all the information you provide. I was having low audio reported from a couple of contacts. I found a post by you in this sub forum about going into Windows Sound settings and making adjustments to the microphone there ( I am using a $20 special from Amazon ...........USB condenser microphone). I am running Windows 11 PRO and found the section in Settings that allowed upping the mic gain. That made a big difference. I did not realize that the microphone gain slider in Thetis had no effect when piping the audio into the pc and Thetis instead of connecting a microphone to the front of the radio.
Still learning the 8000DLE and all the settings. slowly!!!
James
WD5GWY

[w-u-2-o]

Glad you got it sorted, James

[4L5O]

I connected the Hand microphone to Annan, it works fine with PTT KEYBOARD and MOX , but when I switch on PTT rear panel it's switch ptt but no modulation, any idea?

[w-u-2-o]

I connected the Hand microphone to Annan, it works fine with PTT KEYBOARD and MOX , but when I switch on PTT rear panel it's switch ptt but no modulation, any idea?

You microphone is wired so that when the hardware PTT input is grounded so is your microphone element.

You have violated "rule 1" in the first post above.

Rewire your mic in accordance with the mic input pinout. Shield = ground. Mic signal and PTT signal must be separated onto tip and ring, or ring and tip, depending on the setting in General > H/W Select > Hardware Options > Mic. Internal wiring inside the mic must also keep mic and PTT signals separate.

[4L5O]

I connected the Hand microphone to Annan, it works fine with PTT KEYBOARD and MOX , but when I switch on PTT rear panel it's switch ptt but no modulation, any idea?

You microphone is wired so that when the hardware PTT input is grounded so is your microphone element.

You have violated "rule 1" in the first post above.

Rewire your mic in accordance with the mic input pinout. Shield = ground. Mic signal and PTT signal must be separated onto tip and ring, or ring and tip, depending on the setting in General > H/W Select > Hardware Options > Mic. Internal wiring inside the mic must also keep mic and PTT signals separate.

Thank you for your replay, i have this settings, see photo

[w-u-2-o]

That's nice. It's not relevant to your improper mic wiring.

[W1KEN]

I am a brand new ANAN owner, 7000DLE MKII, I managed to get the radio pretty well set up and operating with the exception. Whether I key my PR-781 with a footswitch or by hand on a mic stand, there is a delay of .25-.50 sec before the radio keys and the amp keys. I thought I might try using VOX. That didn't work at all. I am using THETIS v2.9.0.8 protocol 2. I have been reading the manual and setting and resetting parameters and still nothing. Need a little help. I came from the FLEX family because I thought I might like ANAN better. Thanks, W1KEN

[w-u-2-o]

99% chance you have wired your mic cable incorrectly.

Go to Setup > General > H/W Select and in the Hardware Options section choose either tip or ring for the mic signal. Whatever you didn't choose MUST either:

a) Not connect to anything

or

b) Connect ONLY to a PTT signal.

The shield of the TRS connector is ground, of course.

[VK4BXI]

Hi Scott I've been reading through this section carefully since I decided to use "straight" mikes until I can settle my VAC setup and buy a decent DAW (berhinger looks good).
I made the usual mistake of trying to key the TX with a connection to the ring of 3.5mm stereo mike and finding that I could get into TX but no audio.
But then I found an old desk mic that used a dynamic mic and tried that. I was surprised to find that apart from needing lots of mic gain in the 7000 everything worked well using the desk mic paddle to do the keying via the ring on the 3.5mm connector !
I believe that what is happening is that ...its not that the mic I/P is being disabled when the ring is grounded. Its that the bias to the tip is going to zero and thus no signal from the mic capsule !
To test this I have made up a separate bias for the mike capsule and connected the mic to the tip input via a capacitor and then keyed the rig with a ground to the ring of the input connector. Everything works nicely with a bonus of having more mic gain due to a better bias voltage and a higher load resistor.
Bottom line .....either there's a hardware mistake somewhere, or theres a software fault thats been there for ever.
The radio is the 7000 mkII with the latest software and firmware.

Bob

[w-u-2-o]

Bottom line .....either there's a hardware mistake somewhere, or theres a software fault thats been there for ever.

There's nothing wrong with the hardware or the software.

There is something wrong with your mic wiring, either inside the mic or inside the cable or both, that is causing the problem. What mic are you using? How is is wired inside? What is the wiring on your cable and connector? Schematics would be helpful.

[VK4BXI]

Well time to get embarassed again.

Between doing the work on the mic line and retesting to reply to your post....I did check and recheck everything and yes for my mic /headphone setup bias can be be applied to the tip of the mike connector. If I isolate the ring connection from the mic/headphone and put a switch in after everything works.

I'm still a little puzzled though.

I plugged a stereo jack to jack lead into the mic input on the rig and did some measurements on the other end. The ring has a 3.2 volt voltage level on it and grounding it puts the rig into TX. The tip has a ~2.5 volt bias voltage on it (if bias is selected on the correct page) and that remains there even in TX.

So if I understand you correctly from your original item 2 most mic/headphone setups get their bias supplied on the ring.....which would mean that the bias being supplied to the mic would in fact be the 3.2 volts on the logic input that puts the rig into TX.....which will of course dis-appear when the rig is put into TX by any other the hard wired PTT inputs.

So your item 2 is of course correct but .... just how it was happening I've now sorted out for myself.

Solution is to the break the mic line to the ring. If the mic/headphone can work with the bias supplied by rig to the tip connection then all is well and a grounding switch to the rig ring connection will put the rig into TX. Otherwise a separate bias must be used to the mic ring connector.

Bob

[w-u-2-o]

So if I understand you correctly from your original item 2 most mic/headphone setups get their bias supplied on the ring.....which would mean that the bias being supplied to the mic would in fact be the 3.2 volts on the logic input that puts the rig into TX.....which will of course dis-appear when the rig is put into TX by any other the hard wired PTT inputs.

So your item 2 is of course correct but .... just how it was happening I've now sorted out for myself.

Solution is to the break the mic line to the ring. If the mic/headphone can work with the bias supplied by rig to the tip connection then all is well and a grounding switch to the rig ring connection will put the rig into TX. Otherwise a separate bias must be used to the mic ring connector.

Not "most microphones" but certainly those designed for use with PCs because that is the PC standard.

Other than that, yes, exactly!

In case any clarification is needed for other readers, the 3.3VDC is the logic pull up voltage on the PTT circuit and the 2.5VDC is the mic bias voltage coming from the CODEC chip. The mic itself can NEVER be attached in ANY way to the PTT circuit or things will not work properly. If the microphone has a PTT switch in it then that switch needs to be 100% independent of the microphone. The only thing they can and do share is a common ground.

eta: pelling mistakes

[VK4BXI]

Thanks Scott .....its been a bit frustating to deal with such a simple thing !

Having said that, the best on air reports by far, that I've had, have come from a "humble" computor gaming headset. Not all of us have super fast machines that handle VAC and deliver super low latencys. I hanker after a behringer 202HD unit that will do all of the interfacing for me from my headset to the PC. But not for a while.

So I'll get on my soap box and say go do the work to lift the ring line of the headset mic (two 3.5mm stereo sockets back to back with the ring connection missing). What you will get will equal almost anything else and with a lot less hassle. (And of course a lot less money). Use the open ring connection to the rig for your ptt (or the ptt connector on the back). The space bar will also work of course....but that thing is not comfortable to reach for most of the time.

The expensive Mics and audio processing are good......but so is the humble headset when backed by the awesome audio conditioning that is built into the Thetis. And of course with a boom mic your input signal to noise is the best of all.

Thanks Scott soap box off.

[W1SPS]

Good morning,
I am using a Sennheiser MD 421 MkII microphone (specs below). I picked up a "Balanced XLR-3 to TRS" cable. I haven't plugged it into the XLR plug in the back of my Anan-G2 as I'm waiting finish my PTT box (today).

I have a 3.5mm jack to stereo RCA splitter in the PTT IN/OUT on the back of the rig, one RCA goes to my Amplifier and the other goes to my PTT box.

Before I press the FIRE button, lol. I just wanted to make sure this all sounds legit. Fell free to ask any questions if I haven't given enough info.

Thanks in advance for any info.

73 Rich
W1SPS

PRODUCT SPECIFICATION MD 421-II
Frequency response 30 – 17,000 Hz
Transducer principle pressure gradient transducer
Pick-up pattern cardioid
Max. rejection at 180° 18 – 2 dB
Free-field open-circuit sensitivity
2 mV/Pa (= -54 dBV)±2.5 dB
Electrical impedance 200 Ω
Min. terminating impedance 200 Ω
Insensitivity to magnetic field at 50 Hz< 5 μV / 5 μT
Dimensions 215 x 46 x 49 mm
Weight approx. 385 g
Connector XLR-3

[w-u-2-o]

Rich--that should all work fine. However, be aware that not everyone has had good success with the balanced mic input. If you wind up having problems with that specific input I recommend you post in the G2 sub-forum here.

[W1SPS]

Thanks for the heads up. If I have an issue with the XLR I'll try something else. I have a Focusrite Solo with Voicemeeter banana on the computer because at some point I wanted to be able to process my audio. For now I just want to get the thing working then ease into the complicated stuff.

Rich

[w-u-2-o]

Rich--if you are still having problems, please start a NEW topic in the G2 sub-forum: viewforum.php?f=48