G2 LAN speed and Computer to drive G2

[N7KD]

Does anyone know the LAN speed of the G2? It is not listed in the Saturn Manual specs. I am trying to select a computer that will eliminate the frequent sequence errors I am getting. I may not be thinking about this correctly but it is my current thinking. I was looking at an Intel NUC i9 with 24 cores and 32 threads. Maybe someone can tell me if I am overthinkingor wrongly thinking this.

Ken
N7KD

[w-u-2-o]

GigE.

That CPU will be more than adequate.

You should not be getting seq errors with a G2.

[N7KD]

I am getting sequence errors once every few seconds. I do not yet have that CPU but have a NUC Intel Core i7-1360P (12C/16T, Up to 5.0GHz, 18MB) Mini PC, 64GB DDR4 RAM. I don't run much else on that machine. I don't hear pops in the audio but I am not sure how to fix this issue. I have maxed out the priority of Thetis in the computer.

[w-u-2-o]

Sequence errors are always due to networking issues. See this topic:

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3085

In all models prior to the G2, the networking code in the FPGA has very critical timing constraints. That code is also relatively primitive compared to the complex protocol stacks and hardware processing in the average computer. Thus the connections are often temperamental and resulted in a lot of SEQ errors when things were not "just right".

One of the major advantages of the G2 is that it utilizes tried and true, well proven and high performance Linux network code and hardware. This should have reduced the incidence of SEQ errors to almost nothing.

That said, the audio and IF data moved between any ANAN model and the PC running Thetis is sent using UDP. UDP is NOT a lossless protocol like TCP/IP. Oftentimes it is the PC side that is at fault for dropping UDP packets. Things that can be done to improve that include:

- In Thetis > Settings > General > H/W Select enable "Network Throttle Index Tweak".
- Provision a dedicated NIC (network interface card) just for the radio and/or make certain adjustments to the NIC settings, as detailed in this topic:

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=4127

Finally, you can use tools like iPerf to measure performance independently. You can install iPerf on the Pi in the G2, and on your PC, then run tests to look at UDP performance.

[N7KD]

Network Throttle Index Tweak does not appear to make any appreciable difference. Still getting Seq Errors about every one or two seconds.
I have heard that by default Windows 11 has numerous unnecessary processes running and wonder if shutting down some of the ones that do not affect the operation of Thetis would make a difference since this NUC is used only to run Thetis and an external Motu 828es Hardware for sound. Quitting the Motu app does not affect frequency of Seq, errors. Does anyone have information about which unnecessary Windows 11 processes I can shut down if in fact this would make a difference?

[w-u-2-o]

Is the NUC Ethernet port only connected to the G2?

Did you take a look at the link that discusses a dedicated Ethernet port and some changes to the configuration of it?

Lowering CPU load is unlikely to solve this problem.

[N7KD]

Thank you for the information. The NUC is connected to the G2 through a 1G switch. I do not think that the NUC has provision for installation of an internal NIC which is what I would think I would need to have a dedicated Ethernet port for the G2.

[w-u-2-o]

You could easily provision a USB WiFi or Ethernet adapter as a second NIC. Then use that NIC for internet access, either wireless or hardwired to the switch.

In the meantime, you could set both the Pi and the PC to compatible static IPs, then connect them directly in order to test whether it is worth adding a second interface.

[N7KD]

This may be a dumb networking question but if I do add the second IP address and put the computer and G2 on the same subnet (say addresses in 192.168.5.xxx), what happens to the TCI Server running in Thetis that is talking on 192.168.1.43? It is communicating with my logging software on a Mac that can control the frequency of the G2 by clicking on DX spots. My hopeful assumption is that this communication still happens over the other Ethernet connection.

[KA5KKT]

If the NUC has a USB 3.? port capable of a 1gb transfer rate, you might do well with a USB to Ethernet adapter. I run my G2 via such from my laptop via USB C.

[N7KD]

The UC has both USB 3.2 and Firewire 4. My question relates to the issue of the NUC talking over Ethernet to two different subnets.

[w-u-2-o]

This may be a dumb networking question but if I do add the second IP address and put the computer and G2 on the same subnet (say addresses in 192.168.5.xxx), what happens to the TCI Server running in Thetis that is talking on 192.168.1.43? It is communicating with my logging software on a Mac that can control the frequency of the G2 by clicking on DX spots. My hopeful assumption is that this communication still happens over the other Ethernet connection.

Not a dumb question at all. It's very useful to learn about networking where our radios are concerned.

As long as you are running Thetis and not piHPSDR directly on the G2, the issue you are concerned about will not be a problem. Remember that our radios are comprised of two main components. Component #1 is the "RF unit" or "RF hardware". In this case your G2. Nearly everyone refers to this as the radio, but by itself it is NOT a radio. It only becomes a radio when combined with component #2, the software. In this case Thetis.

Now that that long winded explanation is out of the way, the key thing to understand is that, with few exceptions, all other software and devices communicate directly with the software component, again this being Thetis. Hence it is just fine to have a dedicated connection to the RF hardware (e.g. G2) on a dedicated subnet. Meanwhile, the second NIC (Ethernet or WiFi) will remain on the main subnet and connect to the rest of the world. In Thetis you can assign which address it is going to communicate on for these rest of the world connections in Setup > MIDI/network/CAT/etc.

[N7KD]

I took a a look at the link that discusses a dedicated Ethernet port and some changes to the configuration of it. I assume the link being referred to is from Rob W1AEX. His web page has very good info but the URL to the software "HPSDR Programmer V2.0 Nopcap" is dead. I searched for "HPSDR Programmer V2.0 Nopcap" and got numerous hits on the software for several ANAN radios by their planet names but not Saturn (G2) . I looked at GitHub which I have always found to be extremely confusing in that it shows numerous folders and numerous other entries. In this case I have no idea which folder to look into or which entry would yield what I am looking for. Can anyone help me by pointing me to a version of "HPSDR Programmer V2.0 Nopcap" that will work with my G2 and where I can find a link to download that software?

[w-u-2-o]

I assume you are looking to change the IP of your G2, correct?

HPSDR Programmer and HPSDR Bootloader are not applicable to the G2, they are only for all of the previous ANAN models that are strictly FPGA based and do not have a Pi Compute Module inside.

To change the IP address of the Pi you use normal Linux commands. Do an internet search for "raspberry pi static IP address".

Note that if you do this over SSH and screw it up badly enough that you lose network access then you will have to attach a keyboard and monitor to the G2 (or use the internal monitor if that's the kind of G2 you have) to fix the IP settings.

[N7KD]

Thank you for the explanation. This makes my life quite a bit easier. I am a novice at Linux but think I can deal with it. I can attach keyboard and monitor to the G2's pi and if I am not mistaken I can use the terminal program of the pi to change its ip address with linux commands.

[N7KD]

Do I need to set a subnet mask for the G2's pi? If so I assume it is 255.255.255.0. I also assume I do not need to specify a gateway or DNS server since this G2 to computer will be a local network with no access to the Internet.

[w-u-2-o]

Do I need to set a subnet mask for the G2's pi? If so I assume it is 255.255.255.0. I also assume I do not need to specify a gateway or DNS server since this G2 to computer will be a local network with no access to the Internet.

Yes, you can use the terminal in Linux to do your editing. You might want to use a fancier editor. It's totally up to you. There is a lot of good "how to use Linux" YouTube to watch. While I'm happy to answer radio questions I'd rather not start teaching folks Linux!

Yes, you should set the subnet mask as indicated. You need not specify a gateway or DNS address.

I don't know if the CM4 that they are using in the G2 has WiFi or not, but if it does you can set that up so that the Pi has normal access to the internet that way. Or you can provision a USB WiFi dongle on the G2. Either way it's important that both the PC and the Pi can see the internet for any required updates. This is practically a requirement on the G2 Pi because most of the instructions for updating the G2 involve doing things like "git pull" which requires internet access for the G2. Obviously you can manually get those files and move them onto the Pi, but that would be much more of a PITA than provisioning a second WiFi interface for internet access.

[N7KD]

Yes my G2 does have WiFi. The G2 has an SMA antenna connector on the rear and a WiFi Antenna was included along with the G2 in the box I received from Apache Labs. I guess I can just configure the G2's WiFi connection to connect to my WiFi router..

[N7KD]

I added a second ethernet connection to my computer. I gave it the fixed address 192.168.5.2. I went into the G2 with keyboard mouse and monitor. Under Network Preferences I gave it the fixed ip address 192.168.5.3 for both eth0 and wlan0. I connected the computer directly to the G2 using a CAT 8 cable. I restarted both the G2 and the computer. When I open Thetis the General Settings window shows the ANAN ip address as 10.10.30.100. When I press the POWER button I get the error message Error staring SDR hardware, is it connected and powered?
What am I doing that is wrong?

[w-u-2-o]

The first thing you did wrong is to assign the same IP to two different interfaces. On the Pi make wlan0 DHCP and set it up to find your WiFi.

It is assumed your WiFi is NOT on the 192.168.5.x subnet, of course. If it is, make those static IPs a different subnet.

The IP addresses shown in Thetis can be ignored.

After fixing the Pi addressing, reboot it (or restart networking if you have the Linux skills), then see if you can ping the Pi. If you can ping the Pi, give the radio a try.

It's nice that you have a Cat 8 cable, but a Cat 5 cable will work perfectly fine

[N7KD]

I finally fixed the ip address problem and the G2 is talking directly to the computer with no switch or other device in between. Thetis is running normally. I assume setting the WiFi to DHCP is done simply by checking the box "automatically configure empty options". I have done that. The WiFi is on the 192.168.1.xxx subnet so I should have Internet in the G2 through the WiFi.
Thetis is still giving me sequence errors every 2 seconds or so. For me the whole point of this direct connection exercise was that someone told me that the direct connection should fix the sequence error problem but it has not helped at all. Is there a fix for this or was I just wasting my time? I have already told Windows 11 to assign High Priority to Thetis in Task Manager.

[w-u-2-o]

Do you have "Network Throttle Index Tweak" enabled in Thetis? If not, try that. You will need to start Thetis as admin to do this.

What is your total CPU load when using Thetis, as reported by Task Manager or ResMon (not the Thetis number)?

Did you disable all unneeded protocols on the dedicated NIC as discussed in this topic: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=4127

You can do the same thing on the Linux side but I'm not up on how.

The problem may be on the G2 side. I've heard/seen of more than a few others complaining of seq errors with their G2's.

[N7KD]

Disabling all of the unneeded ethernet protocols did the trick. No more sequence errors. I guess the dedicated direct connection between the NUC and the G2 is worthwhile.
Thanks!

[N7KD]

Just a heads-up. Your suggestion of disabling unnecessary protocols included disabling Flow Control. When I did that Thetis froze and would not connect to the G2 when I restarted it. I re-enabled Flow Control. I had to restart both the computer and the G2 to have Thetis reconnect to the G2.

[w-u-2-o]

Just a heads-up. Your suggestion of disabling unnecessary protocols included disabling Flow Control. When I did that Thetis froze and would not connect to the G2 when I restarted it. I re-enabled Flow Control. I had to restart both the computer and the G2 to have Thetis reconnect to the G2.

Yeah, every card seems to be unique in some way. You may not have read the entire thread I referred to, but the second to last post talks about that. And has a fun joke in it

[N7KD]

Yeah each Windows third party add on is unique. I like the t-shirt.

Since my G2 and Thetis are running well now I am subscribing to the philosophy of if it ain't broke don't fix it.