Tone heard with TUN

[KC4LZN]

I've been pondering and digging, not finding any references and this is leading to side tone with CW.

I remote into my local radio in the shack (remote is in the house and the shack is about 50 foot away from the house). When I click TUN, I hear a tone on the speakers.

I know there has been discussions over the years that remotely, you just won't hear side tone.

What I'm trying to understand is, why am I hearing a tone when I press TUN and why can't I make that happen when I key up using the key, remotely?

73
John

[Dave30019]

Un-check 'MON' next to TUN. I know when I have MONitor on I hear a tone also.

Dave
k4em

[KC4LZN]

Dave,

Yes and that's isn't my question. If I hear it when I press TUN, why can't I hear it when I'm in CW mode?

73 John

[Warren_NR0V]

To minimize latency, CW is generated in the FPGA, i.e., in the radio hardware. TUNE along with all other "test signals" are generated in the DSP software, in the computer. Therefore, CW and TUNE are not available at the same places in the architecture. If the CW sidetone were sent back from the radio to the computer, this would be with some latency also and quite distracting.

I haven't personally used CW for a while. I can't comment much beyond that.

Warren NR0V

[S58WW]

https://community.apache-labs.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=5172&p=30307&hilit=tone#p30307

[w-u-2-o]

You are not really "remoting in" since you are on the same LAN as the ANAN hardware. But, yes, having an operating position away from the hardware, and I do that as well, does require some changes to operating style.

MON picks off the raw IF data just before it goes to the DAC. The DSP involved in the path from mic or key to the DAC introduces a lengthy delay which makes MON unusable as sidetone or for anything but a quick and casual check of voice quality. If you are using PureSignal the waveform is predistorted at that point and therefore not very usable for voice quality checks unless you temporarily disable PureSignal. So while it works fine for TUN and two-tone, and okay for casual voice checks, it's not going to be able to provide usable sidetone for CW or voice.

If you enable QSK (full break in) then the duplex receive capability of the radio is used to monitor your own CW transmissions but again this comes with a relatively lengthy delay and IMHO makes it unusable for sidetone.

The original developers of the openHPSDR software and firmware architecture did not believe it was possible to have a low delay (aka low latency) path for CW sidetone outside of the firmware. I disagree but regardless we are still stuck with this situation until a developer comes along who want to tackle this issue for folks like you and me who use only an Ethernet connection to the hardware.

There's at least a couple of way to get around this problem. One would be to use a hobby FM transmitter to send the sidetone output available on the hardware headphone jack back to an FM receiver at your operating position. Or you could try Bluetooth but I believe it will have too much latency.

Another way is to use an external keyer that has a built-in sidetone oscillator. By pure coincidence, I've decided to try to learn Morse/CW this winter, and that is the approach I've decided upon.

I bought an OpenCWKeyer MK2. It is possibly the perfect keyer for ANAN/Thetis users as, like our radios and software, it is completely open source. The hardware design is on Github, and it runs the impressive K3NG software, also on Git.

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I quickly tricked out my keyer by upgrading the Arduino Nano it came with to an Arduino Nano Every. The Every has enough memory to add the display, USB serial control, and Winkeyer functions. I also added a cute little 8x2 OLED display.

You interface the keyer to a serial port on your Thetis PC. Look at Settings > DSP > CW. Set the secondary connection to a real COM port. I use this circuit to create the interface.

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IMG20240909172212.jpg (3.85 MiB) Viewed 3248 times

[KC4LZN]

You are not really "remoting in" since you are on the same LAN as the ANAN hardware. But, yes, having an operating position away from the hardware, and I do that as well, does require some changes to operating style.

Very true on "remoting in." I've gotten so used to the equipment not being here and always called it remote when for all intents and purposes, I am still on the same parcel of land.

Another way is to use an external keyer that has a built-in sidetone oscillator.

Being AI has been pretty prevalent, I decided to put it to the test. I asked for a simple diagram for an oscillator circuit and it directed me to a site that had just that. Simple CW Oscillator. I haven't built it yet but it is simple enough. I also have an older Ameco Code Practice Oscillator that should also fill the bill. I just haven't had time to put it inline to test.

I bought an OpenCWKeyer MK2. It is possibly the perfect keyer for ANAN/Thetis users as, like our radios and software, it is completely open source. The hardware design is on Github, and it runs the impressive K3NG software, also on Git.

I jumped. bought the keyer and it should be on the way, in fact has already arrived in country and cleared customs so I expect to have it by the end of the week. By chance, do you have a link for the OLED display or are they pretty much searchable and readily available?

I was able to actually use a straight key from "remote." I didn't use a virtual port. Simply used a USB to DB9 and used the direct port in Setup > DSP > CW > Connections. I mad the primary Radio, selected secondary as my com port, PTT Line None and Key Line RTS. Wires from the straight key went to pins 7 and 8. Now, once I get the oscillator connected, I should be golden. I've already tested it and was successful in being piicked up by the RBN.

Thanks for the links and ideas with the OpenCWKeyer. Didn't know these were even a thing, other than the one like I had. When I connected it wo my Winkeyer-AF, when I keyed, it would stay keyed. Once I took it back out of line, it unkeyed like it should. I'll try my Ameco oscillator a lilttle later today if time allows and report back my findings.

73
John