Strange CW behavior al of a sudden

[JJ4SDR]

Been enjoying use of my WinKeyer, in anticipation of an upcoming contest. I have disabled or unchecked the Iambic in Thetis and don't even need the side-tone to be enabled.

Now, all of a sudden, the TX keyed although I didn't do anything with the paddle. As soon as I switch to USB, the TX doesn't put out any RF as expected (unless I key the radio using my PTT switch). As soon as I switch back to CW mode the radio goes into TX mode.

Why would this be happening only now, after having used the WinKeyer for a few days?

Any thoughts would be appreciated!

UPDATE:
I powered down the radio, using the power switch, switched it back on and opened up Thetis and the radio behaves as it was before, normal. No issue at all with radio going into transmit mode when I switched from USB to CW.

UPDATE 2:
Playing with the radio some more and all of a sudden the radio does not key to transmit at all, with no RF going out. Powered down radio, using the power switch, opened Thetis and radio works as always............

Juha
NI2M

[JJ4SDR]

WinKeyer is plugged into KEY, in the front of the radio (just like my paddle was connected before, using the built-in iambic keyer).

Below, see the DSP/CW form as it stands now. Never messed with this form and I have operated on CW without any issues for a long time. Although, I had never used WinKeyer before but the built-in Iambic keyer in Thetis whereas WinKeyer is now used as an external keyer instead.

DSP CW Form.jpg (55.9 KiB) Viewed 11309 times

73!
Juha
NI2M

[scflowers]

Hey Juha,
So when you go back to your Iambic key which has worked for a long time, it still works AOK?

73,
Stephen

[JJ4SDR]

Hi Stephen,

Actually, I tried that too. Took WinKeyer out of the circuit and plugged my paddle straight into the front of the radio (enabled iambic keyer inside
Thetis) and the radio went into TX mode immediately........That anomaly hadn't taken place ever before.

WinKeyer is talking to the PC via COM5, but I would think that I don't have to mess with the "Secondary" connection and just stick with the "Primary" connection being set to radio.

73!
Juha
NI2M

[w9ac]

Juha,

I received your PM and e-mail messages today...

There's no need to use anything but the default Thetis values unless you're trying to extract faster CW performance from Thetis. There are many moving parts between Thetis CW setup values and Winkeyer. I have included my setup screens as a reference. However, I don't suggest that you use the extremely fast times I'm using as shown under GENERAL>OPTIONS>OPTIONS-1. My ANAN 7000 has several hardware QSK modifications to achieve this level of CW performance in an effort to avoid RF hot-switching.

Because of the relationship between Winkeyer timing and Thetis, you really need an oscilloscope as a diagnostic tool when experimenting with a broad range of timing values. It's especially important if you use an external amplifier. Without a scope, you're flying blind.

I use a 4-channel scope with external triggering from a dedicated keyer output. When making system timing changes, I monitor the keyer output line, transceiver RF output, amp PTT line, and amplifier RF output -- each on their own scope input. That gives a complete presentation of what's getting to the antenna and all critical points in between.

Maybe this is all more than you wanted to know, but I hope it's helpful.

Paul, W9AC

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[DL8LAQ]

Hi Juha,

which radio and firmware?

I have seen this behavior on several 7000 and 8000 radios with f/w earlier than the version with the rf fix.

See here viewtopic.php?f=32&t=4972

Within two weeks I have had 3 radios on the bench, two 7000DLE and one 8000DLE, with exactely the same cw issue: After running cw in a pile-up for some time - 5 to 30 minutes - all of a sudden the key down behaviour appeared and could only be cleared by toggling power.

My 7000DLE seems to be cured with f/w 2.2.1. It's time for a longer test (60+ minutes). My primary radio now is the G2.

[JJ4SDR]

Thank you Paul!

Well, yes, you provided a little more info than I expected !

Not possessing an oscilloscope, I am wondering, perhaps I forgo using WinKeyer altogether and stick with using my external paddle and work CW contests without macros at all (yes, that won't be ideal to say the least), at least for right now. Obviously, the delays inside Thetis must accommodate the T/R switching inside the ANAN and the Amp, no matter what.

My SS amp has a PIN diode for T/R switching (around 1ms switching time) and I have worked CW contests before without any hot switching or timing issues. The tube amp that I pressed into service for this weekend's CQ WPX contest (vacuum relay for T/R switching) needs "up to 4ms" to switch from receive to transmit mode, according to the manufacturer when I queried them on this. I will probably round that up to 5ms at least or say 7ms.

Made progress in the mean-time. The only remaining issue is that WK does not (seems this is hit or miss) generate an audible side-tone in case I need to send "fills" using my paddle. Using macros will handle most of the scenarios of course, but the ability to jump on the paddle is very attractive!

73!
Juha
NI2M

[JJ4SDR]

Hi Norbert!

Below, see the software and P2 versions I am using with my ANAN 7000 DLE MKII (it has the EP4CGX150F896 Cyclone IV series FPGA)
Thetis v2.10.4.3 x64
Protocol 2 v2.1.18

If I understand correctly, RF appearing on a Receive only antenna ports (in my case, I receive only on Port 1 and I do not transmit on ports 2 and 3, only port 1) is more of a problem if you have a separate Receive antenna connected to port 2 and/or 3, correct? Also, the hot-switching is more an issue for CW mode, correct? I have only Port 1 connected to an antenna.

Sanity check: Even without a separate receive antenna connected to either port 2 and/or port 3 there is likely the TINIEST of RF appearing on those ports, but for all intents and purposes, that RF will not pose a threat to the ANAN, right? So, consequently, I don't need to install a "fix" I would think.

73 de Juha
NI2M

[K1LSB]

JJ,

The fact that you don't have a problem with RF appearing on a RX-only port doesn't mean you don't need to update your firmware.

Norbert's saying that the updated firmware also appears to fix the key-down behavior issue in CW.

So his suggestion is that you should update your firmware to 2.2.1.

Mark

[JJ4SDR]

Hi Mark,

Good to hear from you

Thanks!
JJ

[Michael]

I was reading with interest this thread as I experienced relay hot switching during the CQWWDX Contest last week end. This is quite annoying in particular when you are in the middle of "running" with more calls coming in and you have to stop as the keyer goes crazy with missing dits and dahs and sometimes even blocking the mox.

SetUp: ANAN G2, latest version of Thetis and firmware, SPE amp, Winkeyer 3 USB connected via N1MM+ and Paddles connected to the WK (whereas paddles rarely are being used during contests). As CW is controlled via the CAT connection between N1MM+ and Thetis, Thetis DSP CW settings are not relevant. Hot switching appeared after some 5min in 'Running' mode and took a while to disappear again. It was lesser a problem in S&P mode.

I played a bit with different delay settings but nothing really helped. I also considered RFI and changed the arrangement of SPE amp and the ANAN G2 and even switched off the amp for a while but the problem remained (btw - I use common mode chokes on all antennas and a lot of ferrites on the cables and had no RFI issue with my ICOM radio in the past).

Has somebody a similar setup and experienced this, too? How I can avoid this in the future?

73, Michael, DF2RQ

I have seen the setting for high speed using an ANAN 7000. Are these also recommended settings for the G2? Anything else I need to consider?

[Michael]

I may have found the problem.

It likely is related to a setting in N1MM+ CAT interface where I had all boxes of the PTT hard and software control ticked.

Screenshot 2024-11-26 120831.png (44.99 KiB) Viewed 5511 times

I was wondering of a relay double click sound when using N1MM+ and realized now that this is related to enabling PTT via Radio Command with different delay setting in Thetis and N1MM+. In fact it also works without enabling the PTT via Radio Command and the double click sound disappeared.

I assume that this caused the hot switching but I only can verify in the next contest.

73, Michael